As a result of the forum on incorporation hosted by the East Norwich Civic Association on Wedneday, Nov. 19 at the Community United Methodist Church of East Norwich, at the Jan. 22 meeting, the group will set up committees to look into the questions that need answers: the pros and cons of incorporation. ENCA President Matthew Meng opened the well attended forum by saying Nov. 19, 2003 was a major milestone for the ENCA, its 40th anniversary. "It was started in 1963 to stop the construction of a cloverleaf at the intersection of Route 106 and Northern Boulevard." It fought to preserve the quality of life here, he added.

The panel of village experts on the dais included: Michael Peragine, past president of the Village Officials Association (VOA) and three term (former) mayor of Oyster Bay Cove; Muttontown Mayor Richard Murcott; Bayville Mayor Victoria Siegel, VOA president; Oyster Bay Cove Mayor Ralph Potente; VOA Executive Director Warren Tackenberg, past mayor of New Hyde Park. (Mr. Meng expected attorney John Armentano, of the law firm of Farrell, Fritz who represents several villages, but he was not able to attend.)

Mayor Vicki Siegel, the first speaker said, "It is a misnomer that taxes go up after incorporation." She added "East Norwich was blessed in that it is doing things right. You are thinking, investigating and getting all the facts together before making a decision. - Get all your facts straight."

She said at an earlier meeting, someone questioned if funds would still be available for senior citizens and the handicapped to remodel their homes for safety, and said those funds are dependent on meeting income criteria and that they would still be available after incorporation. An incorporated village is still a participant in town government services.

Muttontown Mayor Richard Murcott asked, "Why incorporate?" He answered, "For local control." He said his village has seven trustees, while the Town of Oyster Bay has five councilpersons who cover the 300,000 residents of the town. Mr. Murcott said another reason for incorporation is "a feeling of community." What are the disadvantages, he asked. "Cost, but it doesn't mean it will cost more than being unincorporated. It has to be worked out. But if it is a wash, or costs a little money it can mean a better quality of life."

Ms. Siegel said villages are important. She said if the Bayville-Rye Bridge had been built as Robert Moses wanted, East Norwich would have been split in two. She said it was stopped through the joint efforts of the mayors of villages on the north shore including Bayville, Mill Neck, Lattingtown, and Matinecock. Those mayors got in touch with mayors in Rye and Port Chester, across the Long Island Sound, and got them involved in the fight. "The Town of Oyster Bay was helpful and we killed that legislation," she said. The result was people had a demonstration of the force and strength of the incorporated villages.

Ms. Siegel said big government is removed from the people and that they don't know what is happening on the local level. "We at the local level know. You see us at the supermarket and at parties and you tell us what is happening. Village government is neighbor serving neighbor, because what's good for you is good for me."

Resident Jason Pinsky asked what the initial costs for creating a village would be: the public works and road repairs. [East Norwich is currently scheduled for road repairs by the Town of Oyster Bay.] He added, "What is the cost of a new government, judges, a town hall, and who takes care of traffic and code enforcement?"

Mayor Siegel said roads can belong to the town, county and state, village or a private road association, as many in Bayville are owned. But, she said there is state money available for road repairs: Consolidate Highway Improvement Program (CHIP) is based on mileage on roads. "Who owns the roads in East Norwich?" she asked. [A recent phone call to the town determined that each road would have to be checked: for instance, Hawthorne Road, Timothy Lane and Radcliff Drive are all Town of Oyster Bay roads, Split Rock Ridge is a private road, and Route 106 and 25A are state roads.]

Mayor Potente said Oyster Bay Cove owns four roads: Yellow Cote Road, Sandy Hill Road, a piece of Split Rock Road and McCouns Lane. They recently got state money for McCouns Lane and Sandy Hill Road and now he is trying to get money for Yellow Cote Road.

(Former) Mayor Peragine said the Village of Oyster Bay Cove was in negotiations with the Town of Oyster Bay to have them take over their roads. He said they turned the offer down. They wanted their own control and that it came to less money for snow removal and sweeping. If it turns out there are private roads in East Norwich, he suggested they could set up Homeowner's Associations.

Mayor Murcott added that the trustees, judges and board members are not paid. The Village of Muttontown contracts out for snow plowing and highway work. "We pool our police department." They are one of the seven villages that use the services of the Old Brookville Police Department.

Resident Mark Nardone said they looked at the budgets of Bayville and Sea Cliff and said, "Wow, there was a lot that was different. They have historic buildings. We would choose what we want to do and what to contract out. There is no village hall, but it's a tiny village and we don't need services."

Bert Spitz, a former Muttontown board member and a current East Norwich resident said. "If we keep the same status quo, why incorporate?"

Matthew Meng had an answer-the recent court decision on the triangle between the 25A spur and Split Rock Road. He said, "Today the court in Brooklyn ruled that the Town of Oyster Bay and East Norwich residents were wrong to deny the owners (of the triangle lot) to develop 1.4 acres of land in a two acre area. The ENCA, the BCEN, 78 residents and 150 e-mails sent to the town including from the Oyster Bay Cove Police Chief, Mayor Michael Peregine and Mayor Richard Murcott were all opposed to it. The owners appealed the case and now there will be a house there and in three years, we'll see a business there." [The site, located on the highway is going to be developed as a home by a noted landscape firm owner, and residents are concerned it will become an extension of his landscape business.]

Mr. Meng said he has a list of 31 endangered properties in East Norwich where businesses could be built. He said, "If we were incorporated we could have a master plan."

Mr. Meng said the Town of Oyster Bay has no master plan in place. "In the court case, we were not considered expert witnesses. The ENCA had no real estate appraisers or other expert witnesses. The Town maybe - didn't put up a strong enough defense, even though the town took our side," he said.

A woman said, "Plus we would be in control of zoning. Atlantic Beach just received its zoning powers: it's a crack in the dam." [In 1938 then Nassau County Executive Russell Sprague of the Board of Supervisors ruled no newly incorporated villages would have zoning powers.]

Mayor Siegel said, "As a result of Atlantic Beach gaining zoning powers - not only they did - but now the Nassau County Legislature can adopt an amendment to the zoning powers legislation." [The current decision changed the date of 1938 to the year Atlantic Beach was incorporated.]

East Norwich resident Joseph Manfredi said, "I'm very happy in East Norwich. What's unhappy? We have police, sanitation, roads, not many zoning problems to speak of, why add to the level of bureaucracy?"

Mr. Meng said that at the current time there were people who are active in the civic association but that there were times when it was almost non-existent. He said, "When we send out a community alert, a lot of people come out." Otherwise, few people get involved over the year. There is only a small group of residents who watch out for the village interests and are willing to act when someone in East Norwich is facing a civic problem.

Mayor Peragine had a financial reason and said, "OBC has zoning powers, a fire district and a fire prevention area, depending on the service provided. Our tax rate is impacted by the cost for services of the Old Brookville Police Department and it is less expensive than East Norwich residents pay. The rate is lower than you pay."

Mr. Manfredi said he did some research on what different villages pay and said, "I don't understand why I'd incorporate."

Mayor Potente said, "I don't necessarily agree. You are comparing different districts. OBC has a police and fire department and four roads and garbage pick up. You have no police department."

Warren Tackenberg added that Garden City has its own police department and a paid fire department.

Mayor Peragine said, "OBC is an all-service village, and we pay less than what East Norwich pays for police protection." Mayor Potente credited the fact that they were an incorporated village for being able to negotiate their own police contracts.

"Let's not make taxes," said a resident of East Norwich for 44 years. He asked what important issues there were to call for the need of incorporation.

Matthew Meng said zoning is important, but added that he is currently involved in trying to realign the traffic light at Mill River Road and Chelsea Center on Route 25A. The DOT is currently evaluating how much of the property on the west side of the road, along Route 25A, is theirs, he said. Currently people entering Chelsea Center are directed down Muttontown Lane through a residential area to the back entrance of the property. The road on 25A is used as an exit. He said it is a quality of life issue for residents who live on those side streets. Additionally, Mr. Meng said, he has been working with Jack Scheich and Assemblywoman Donna Ferrara and has gotten a $50,000 multi-modal grant for the civic association for their project to bring water to the intersection to irrigate the plantings. He asked rhetorically - "If a civic association is so good why is incorporation necessary," and he answered himself - "It takes a lot of time and a lot of work. Right now we have lots of strong members, but it takes a lot of people to do something. If we were a village we could apply for certain grants which we can't do as an unincorporated area." [Additionally there would be a village clerk, a paid position, to follow up on details.]

Jack Scheich, president of the Committee for the Beautification of East Norwich (CBEN) related a zoning violation where a garage in East Norwich was built without conforming to the setback laws. Board members complained to the Town of Oyster Bay with no success. Another issue is the Quonset huts on Route 106, near the East Norwich Inn that have been objected to. Mr. Scheich said, "They should be legalized, and made more beautiful or removed. The Town gives them $100 summonses and that is all they do."

A woman asked about a new problem for Muttontown Lane residents. She said, "What could a village do? They extended the (Harmony Heights) school and now it's a monstrosity. A new fence and landscaping was promised." [At night, the lights are left on in the cafeteria and it looks like a department store window in the middle of a residential area.]

Matthew Meng said, "We can only act on your concerns, if you let us know about a problem, then as a civic association we can do something." He said the school's expansion was their right, but said the civic association can send a letter about the landscaping, and added, "Unless we know, we can't fight for you."

Mayor Nicholas Capozzi of Manorhaven said having a village meant having someone who will go to Albany and fight for needed funding. His village has four trustees, the mayor and a village clerk. "She runs the village," he said. Mr. Capozzi said since he has been mayor the assessed valuations in the village have risen, but not the taxes. "I believe the best thing for everyone is to have government as close as possible. The unincorporated part of Port Washington is thinking of incorporating." There was applause as he ended his talk.

During the earlier part of the evening, Oyster Bay Cove Mayor Ralph Potente had said he wasn't automatically in favor of incorporation. A man asked him to explain that. Mr. Potente said a village has limited power, and zoning issues are difficult. "If you incorporate you don't have enormous power. Even about the triangle (property on 25A, between Split Rock Road and the Spur) the town turned it down, but there is Article 78. There are enough lawyers and some people who have enough money - and who can and will fight longer - and lawyers have to be paid (including by a village fighting for their decision)."

Mayor Peragine said, "Now you in East Norwich have a volunteer government. Matthew is totally into it. That's a lot for one person to give. Who will rise to the top? We have a civic association and they do accomplish a lot." He said it was because of the Village of Oyster Bay Cove residents that 25A narrows to a two lane road in their area.

Mayor Potente said, "I can't tell you, but another layer of government - is that what you want?"

Warren Tackenberg, past mayor of New Hyde Park said there are 10,000 residents in 3,000 houses in his village. The village has 100 employees, and five are in their library. Their ZBA costs $600 a year. He said, "What do you get for your money? The most responsive form of government, and it is better for the community." He said, "Look what happened in the Cerro Wire case - and the Town of Oyster Bay voted against it."

Irene Manfredi said, "The community is very much in control. If a neighbor is making too much noise at 8 a.m. I can go over and say something. It's just a wonderful place and if it's not broken, don't fix it."

Resident Carl Gallmeyer said, "I love it here. You're asking us to weigh the issue. I want to hear the details. How much will it cost? What is the compelling reason to change?"

Matthew Meng answered that while he gives a great deal of time to the community as a civic leader, he has two businesses and can't guarantee that kind of time commitment will continue. He said, "The question of incorporating has often arisen in discussions and this is a good time to bring it to the community to get a pulse - a sense of what the community wants. If it doesn't, I'll move it off my plate," he said.

Bayville Mayor Victoria Siegel said to make a definitive decision, the residents needed to find out how much it will cost to run a village. "First decide what type of village you want. My village, with the exception of a police department, is a full service village. Or you can decide to contract out for services." [For example, Bayville has its own water department, East Norwich already gets its water service from the Jericho Water District.]

She said, "I recall in the 1960s East Norwich tried to save their old [Layton] Country Store but it was given to Old Bethpage Village Restoration. That landmark building is gone."

Mayor Peragine said "If you think it's a good idea, dig you heels in. On the other side, the worse thing is that it can tear a community in half, but what that debate creates is a great sense of community. It protects community. This triangle in Matthew Meng's backyard may not mean a lot but it is a piece of culture. The main trading by residents took place on Route 106 and 25A, the Indians did their trading on that triangle. That's a part of your culture - gone. It may not be broken now, but I say the time to fix your roof is when the sun is shining." He added, "Mayors basically have altruistic views of things; maybe to a fault: we think you should do things right. This county is a mosaic. Look at the villages with zoning powers: things have been preserved. You should consider. If you are worried about taxes you should be at the school board meeting." (There was applause for that comment.) "You have an opportunity to be sure this place stays a nice place," he added.

A Sugar Tom's Lane resident said everyone needed to hear the issues and go home and think about it. "We need to look at this with an open mind to see that things can be better. Personally I think it can be a good idea."

Carlton Prue of the Cold Spring Harbor Civic Association asked how adversarial the town will be? He said they assume the Town of Huntington will fight them and that it can cost thousands of dollars. Zoning powers are incredibly powerful, he said, and added that after incorporation property values will go up.

A lady called out "Taxes will go up," and asked "Who pays to fight the Town of Oyster Bay?"

Mayor Siegel said Mr. Potente asked where would the mayor and trustees come from and she answered: "If you were to go that route, those officials are in this room - here. You are interested in your community and that's the only concern you need to do the right thing."

A gentleman called out, "Zoning powers are important."

Mayor Peragine said, "No one believed Atlantic Beach could do it. It was 'The Little Mouse that Roared' and they won by an enormous vote, and Tom Gulotta had voted against it twice. I believe if East Norwich took that fight on, the county executive already said he'd like to help the village, and I'll help you fight."

Mayor Murcott said, "Some things are regulated by the state and the local community has little to say. Martin Viette has been trying to get a light for 30 years but it's not going to happen."

Talking about traffic lights, Rosemary Colvin said, "I was very active in the 60s when we tried to get a traffic light and it didn't happen for many years. A civic association is only as good as the people it has. That's an argument for a steady structure. For many years the East Norwich Civic Association was out of operation. It's good to have a structure in place all the time."

A man asked, "What's the time frame, the number of additional meetings needed for incorporation?"

Mr. Meng figured out the time frame for the process, which includes going to the Town of Oyster Bay with a petition signed by 20 percent of the registered voters; a town public hearing; and a vote. It should take about two years, he estimated.

Cold Spring Harbor Area Civic Association member Clayton Prugh said that for the process, the meets and bounds of the village would be needed - the dimensions of the hamlet in feet and inches. Jack Scheich said, "There are three villages around us, we only have to do the line on one end." That would be the one between Oyster Bay and East Norwich.

Mayor Peragine said it was a very fine beginning. "From a very small spark grows a large flame. This will no doubt go on - so good luck."

There was applause.

Charles Gaulkin said, "I can tell there's increasing interest in forming a village in the hamlet of Oyster Bay. ENCA has taken the lead in having this forum and getting people together to listen to the pros and cons. The Oyster Bay Civic Association is very appreciative of you and Matthew Meng for inspiring the idea. It's been floating around the hamlet for a long time. We'll be pursuing the work initiated here."

Mr. Prugh of CSHACA said that the taxes from the school district have heightened their interest in being incorporated.

Mr. Scheich said, "There were questions raised here. There was a vocal minority opposed to incorporation."

Jason Pinsky said as a member of a village his Town of Oyster Bay parking permit would go from $20 for two years to $80 for one year.

Anne Melnick was concerned about the loss of beach rights. "We are landlocked and it would cost $25 on weekends for cars." That too would not change, since the village would still be in the Town of Oyster Bay.

"Join the ENCA, the money paid for dues goes right back into the community," said Mr. Meng. He said later, if the incorporated village could negotiate a contract with Dependable Sanitation it would be charged as a tax and would be deductible.

The ENCA meets at the Community United Methodist Church of East Norwich in the education building on Jan. 22 at 7:45 p.m.